How Much Bitcoin You'd Get If All 21 Million Were

Regarding the Venezuelan user that "scammed" people here

Hey, my name is Roy, and I came here to address a delicate subject, I am not a mod, I am just a regular user, living in Venezuela, with just a simple advice; please have some common sense, I am not here to insult you, that is not my intention, the majority of Venezuelans in Reddit are very upset because of this (if you can speak spanish, or you can use google translate please have a read here), and are calling it "Viveza Criolla", we as Venezuelans DO NOT CONDONE this, that was just plain and simple a scam.
Of course with this I am not saying there are no miners in Venezuela being arrested and their miners taken away (https://news.bitcoin.com/venezuelan-bitcoin-miners-bribed-thrown-jail-secret-police/) --- (https://www.marketwatch.com/story/venezuelan-authorities-arrest-4-bitcoin-miners-2017-01-26) --- (https://www.ccn.com/report-two-venezuelans-arrested-mining-bitcoin/), but there are very punctual cases, for example, in the first case two brothers were arrested, but it all happened because they had OVER 90 MINING RIGS.
In November, Venezuela’s secret police raided the house of two brothers in Caracas and found more than 90 mining terminals. The agents demanded $1,000 in bribes for each machine, according to the brothers, who spoke on the condition of anonymity because they fear arrest. The brothers said they paid the bribes to stay in business.
On the second report, the guys had over 300 mining rigs, they had a whole hangar for them
Authorities confiscated 300 mining terminals, according to photos published on Rico’s Instagram account, Criptonoticias reported. The models included Antminer S4s, produced by Beijing-based Bitmain, and SP31 Yukons, manufactured by Israel-based Spondoolies.
On the third one, they don't state how many miners were seized but you can presume they were a lot of them
With the arrests, authorities also seized mining machines as well as four laptops.
The two bitcoin miners are awaiting prosecution at Tribunal Séptimo de Control, or the Seventh Control Court in Carabobo.
I can also tell you that the government takes these machines they seize and put them to work for them
None of the low time miners have been arrested, specially because here in Venezuela, there is absolutely NO CONTROL of the electricity consumption(which is their excuse everytime they make one of these busts, truth is, there is always someone slipping, or saying something to someone else, then it all goes from there), I can tell you for experience that none of the low time miners have been arrested and their machines seized, I have several friends up to 10 mining rigs and none of them have even been disturbed by the police, also, why was this guy's machines taken away but he was not arrested?
I am sorry I am getting off track here, about the common sense, please just look at this guys history. it's full of red flags
He claims Venezuela minimum wage is only 20$ (which was real at that time) and might make you think, oh dude, this guy is poor.
But a little over 6 months later he was trading his PSN and Amazon cards for paypal, again this is not an indication of any wrongdoing, but for a normal Venezuelan, a year ago $100, was a lot of money.
Up from there, he trades a lot of money in gifts cards, (again for a Venezuelan more than $100 is a lot of money)
He then goes to mining Ether with his rig and then he says another red flag in his post he says that he doesnt pay for electricity
After that he goes dark for like 6 months, then 14 days ago he posts this: "my dad stop giving me money for college in my first year, had to start making money by my self, still no car but I made it to the last year, but I live in Venezuela so I can't afford public transport anymore to college so he can't afford money for transportation yet recently he claimed that he has 1000$ in crypto?
Just so you know, many Venezuelans with real problems are trying to leave the country and believe me, $1000 can buy you a plane ticket, in first class. To leave the country by land in a bus to Ecuador can costs you $250
These are the prices I collected when I first started making plans to leave but they have increased since, not by much, but is still an approximate
Then 4 days ago in an assistance thread he claims that he is migrating to Chile and he has not much money
Here comes the part where he was asking for advice deciding if he should buy Antminers S2 or trade but when Gasset told him to go to charities subreddit, he posted in vzla saying "How do you manage to not kill yourself" or http://prntscr.com/i4rdc8 (in case he decides to delete it).
Also, worth nothing in the thread about killing himself he says that he is "tired of the creole' cleverness", or Viveza Criolla as said early.
AND THEN!!! Comes the big one, suddenly 14 hours ago "Police came to his house and took his miners" also, worth nothing that in his comment he says that police said they knew because of his "electricity consumption", (again HUGE red flag), or a neighbor told someone, this, while (if real) is the most likely scenario, why in the world anyone mining BTC would even tell anyone that you have miners? in a country were police is arresting miners. (Of course not for one second I believe he had them, he would be in handcuffs)
Of course he then goes to contradict himself all over, saying things like "He was planning to sell his rig for $1000 to go to chile
Then when someone gives him a tip (reddit is down i can't see how much he got) He says "You didn't have to!" (Oh poor you, you mother*****) (Sorry I am pissed off right now)
And then all hell breaks loose from then on.
As I said earlier, there are Venezuelans in real need to leave the country, and even $200 can help them leave.
Before donating to any random redditor (not only Venezuelans) please check his post history, check if his story adds up.
There was recently the case of a guy from Venezuela saying he was waiting for donations to help other Venezuelans (https://www.reddit.com/userandomizerdude that created the website https://helpvenezuelans.com/), he received 1 btc, and he vanished, his last post was from a month ago. now, those 17k could have helped a LOT of people to eat, or simply leave their country
Or better yet, if you want to help Venezuelans, donate to a Venezuelan charity https://raymasuprani.com/mas-is-more-foundation/ This one is one of the bests (there are other, it's 3 am here sorry)
I suggest you please take a second and have a little common sense.
Thank you and so sorry for ranting here, as I said, there are Venezuelans with real needs and real problems out there.
I also hope you don't label ALL Venezuelans as scammers because of one rotten apple.
Again, thank you. If you have any questions I am happy to answer, also I am sure many Venezuelans will come here to express their opinion.
Edit: Formatting

Edit 2: GODDAMMIT! Not again
submitted by Roy_Vzla to btc [link] [comments]

The Strange Birth & History of Monero, Part II: BitMonero

--YOU CAN READ THIS IN SPANISH HERE--
When i first knew about Monero i was hungry of information, and when i found the americanpegasus post about "The Strange Birth & History of Monero" i loved it. I looked for a second part for a while but as there was no trace of it i did my own investigations. Now i've decided it could be a good idea to paste the results here with the same format as americanpegasus did, to help new users looking for info about the "strange birth" of Monero.
Bitmonero - a new coin based on CryptoNote technology
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=563821.0
Notable comments in this thread:
-1: " Important: this is not a Bytecoin relaunch or not a Bytecoin replacement but a Bytecoin fork. Bytecoin has its own long history, community and stakeholders we don't know much about. I respect them and their decisions even if I don't understand them now. An intention to relaunch coin is always harmfull for everybody involved. Fork is a right way to contribute to community in case you don't agree with decisions already made. - Why did I make fork? - Because there is a number of technical and marketing issues I wanted to do differently. And also because I like ideas and technology and I want it to succeed. I did an announcement ASAP while a lot of details aren't still defined because the earlier it is announced the more people will be able to join. Details will appear as soon as they will be defined and decided.
Here are details that are already defined and I don't plan to change this:
  1. New coin will use Bytecoin(BCN)/CryptoNote code base.
  2. New coin is started from scratch (i.e. from genesis block).
  3. Emission schedule has a flatter curve (close to Bitcoin's original curve).
  4. Bitmonero - BMR (monero /esperanto/ = coin)
  5. Block target = 60 seconds"
(https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=563821.msg6146656#msg6146656) [thankful_for_today makes public BitMonero, and he stablishes some features he is not willing to change]
-11: “I honestly don't see the advantage of bringing the block time down to 1 minute. You're ultimately looking at increasing orphan blocks and decreasing hash power, and all you get is a feature that looks great on paper but has little purpose. I wouldn't mess with it. Apparently the BCN devs wanted 5-10 minute block times but settled on 2 minutes after lengthy disputes. Their decision is explained in more detail here: https://forum.cryptonote.org/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=20”
(https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=563821.msg6151158#msg6151158) [Johnny Mnemonic tries to persuade TFT into bigger block target]
-15: ” Block target isn't only about transaction speed.
It also influences the chance to get block in solomining […] Solo mining gives decentralization.
[…]
From another point of view faster block are smaller (less transactions per block). Small blocks are easier to propagate through network.”
(https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=563821.msg6160389#msg6160389) [TFT justifies his position]
-16: “Any coin that is successful wont be feasible to solo mine eventually.”
(https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=563821.msg6161218#msg6161218) [smooth supports Johnny Mnemonic proposal of bigger blog target]
-25: “There are very good reasons for having a fork instead. With BCN we have a coin that refused to show itself for 2 years and has been 80% mined. Why would the markets accept that? Crypto distribution is absurdly bad […] But this [BCN] is taking it to a whole new level. […]Don't underestimate "instamining" stigma - it annihilated Quark and continues to plague DRK
[…]
A fresh start pre-announced start gives a known market history, a fairer and longer distribution, and active development with feedback.
That said, I'm disappointed in what this thread turned out to be. We should've had discussion on the name and the parameters and other things and yet thankful_for_today is nowhere to be seen 4 days from the supposed launch.”
(https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=563821.msg6239589#msg6239589) [eizh justifies the fork and shows the first public complains on TFT activity/communication: he’s been 100% quiet for 5 days]
-37: “Looks like everything is ready. Bitmonero will be launched in 24 hours => Launch time 17 April, 22:00”
(https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=563821.msg6256385#msg6256385) [TFT announces the BitMonero launch time, it is his first post in 6 days]
-53: “Bitmonero = bit + monero monero = mono (money) + ero (bit) = coin (esperanto language)
OS X build is a problem for me. I don't have a mac available for building and testing. In case somebody can help with building for Mac or for Windows, please PM me.”
(https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=563821.msg6272312#msg6272312) [TFT, 1h prior to launch, announces there are not neither Mac nor Windows clients built]
-54: “Wait, you won't have Windows available? A launch is basically a premine without a Windows client available. BCN has one, so what's the issue?”
(https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=563821.msg6272532#msg6272532)
-56: “I will wait until somebody will help with windows and mac compilation.”
(https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=563821.msg6272768#msg6272768) [TFT delays BitMonero launch]
-58: “Trying to cross compile”
(https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=563821.msg6272876#msg6272876) [tacotime]
-70: “I really like the idea of forking BCN but only if it is done properly!”
(https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=563821.msg6274881#msg6274881) [x0rcist, as others do, thinks the launch is being rushed]
-71: “I think the most important change is the emissions schedule, but yes, this is rushed. The name alone may doom it.
This coin had no discussion behind it. It was pointed that the block time is too fast beyond the solo mining phase. It was kept without offering reasons. It was pointed out that the name should be voted on. Nope, and a bizarre name resulted.
Perhaps the biggest reason to fork is that it was mined for 2 years without making itself available to the other 99.9999999% of the internet on the clearweb. Yet, we wouldn't be much better if we did a launch without a GUI client and a website. Instead, we were 1 hour from launch without a Windows client, which is actually a step backwards from BCN itself (they released an easy-to-use package with a batch file for nontechnical users). We need (1) an accessible release with (2) proper marketing (including a different name). Right now this fork doesn't have much of a reason to exist, IMO. There's no reason to release it now and work on these things later, either. All we'd be doing is unfairly mining it ahead of everyone else”
(https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=563821.msg6275044#msg6275044) [eizh points out that TFT blatantly ignored the community suggestions and also thinks all this is being rushed]
-77: “I've updated an OP: sources are on git, binaries are on MEGA.
Height is 5, difficulty is 27908. This is a good start.”
(https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=563821.msg6279564#msg6279564) [TFT follows through his plans w/o much interaction]
-87: “not happy with the rush job and the 12 decimal numbers (Huh) but the blockchain already started so;
i registered the channel #bitmonero on freenode, this is easier for support questions so come join!
(https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=563821.msg6280702#msg6280702)
-97: “I'm working on this [merged mining with Bytecoin] together with a friend of mine. Merged mining will be released next week.”
(https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=563821.msg6281655#msg6281655) [TFT announces a feature that would confront him with the whole community in the near future]
-133: “The only community discussion this coin saw (regarding the reduced block time) the developer ignored outright. It was made pretty clear that moving to 60 second blocks was not the best approach and had zero long-term benefit.”
(https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=563821.msg6286990#msg6286990)
-159: “There is a lot of issues with GUI to talk about. I propose to meet in Irc at 20GMT today. Is this time good?
I have some budget we can spend to motivate GUI developers: 1.000.000 BCN and 400 BMR.
Anybody can contribute some coins also for this purpose.”
(https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=563821.msg6295475#msg6295475) [TFT shows himself collaborative “for first time”]
-175: “The current situation is that someone disabled mempool and forked the chain so that the invalid tx doesn't get in the way. But the difficulty hasn't changed much so blocks are being found much more rarely than 1 minute. So you can mine, it's just very slow. A few people are on the freenode channel trying to solve the cause of the problem.”
(https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=563821.msg6300059#msg6300059) [eizh points the first “TFT-induced” bug]
-177: “Hello!
It's all right
I have a fix and I will deploy it now. Hardfork is not required. The problem is in mining code not in protocol rules.
10 minutes, please”
(https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=563821.msg6300328#msg6300328) [TFT says he already has a fix ready]
-204: “Auctioning 100 BMR minimum bid 0.001 btc https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=577296”
(https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=563821.msg6303161#msg6303161) [smooth tries to sell for first time a BMR token]
-205: ”This topic's first post should also be more informative.”
(https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=563821.msg6303294#msg6303294) [Once again, eizh points out a TFT-related problem.]
-214: “a botnet or cloud has come onto the network starting at block 2633, difficulty is now almost 100k!”
(https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=563821.msg6304960#msg6304960) [tacotime notices a difficulty increase]
-215: “We had our first public trade [...] 100 BMR = 0.005 BTC https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=577296.0”
(https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=563821.msg6304971#msg6304971) [smooth announces that the first BMR sale has taken place]
-275: “New BCN clone: "HoneyPenny" (yes, really)
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=577267.0
[…]
Props to them for actually putting anonymous and unlinkable in the thread title. A casual browser still would have no idea what BMR actually does.”
(https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=563821.msg6327901#msg6327901) [eizh shares the announcement of a third cryptocurrency based on CryptoNote so far by then, this coin will be re-named Boolberry (BBR) in the future. He also takes advantage of this launch to point again the lack of communication and cooperation of TFT, specially with the OP]
-300: “Difficulty still skyrocketing. At this rate BMR may pass BCN within the next day or so.”
(https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=563821.msg6331990#msg6331990) [BitMonero hashrate is growing so fast it might outpace BCN soon]
-317: “Hi! I have two news (good one and bad one):
[bad] I haven't read previous messages yet
[good] here is a logo contest: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=580155.0”
(https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=563821.msg6338544#msg6338544) [TFT shows up again against community expectations. He is not taking part at all in the community debates]
-329: (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=563821.msg6349635#msg6349635) [eizh is still pressing TFT to change the OP without luck]
-341: “CryptoNote has relatively good privacy for transmitting values throughout the network (ring signatures, stealth addressing) while not compromising things like being able to detect inflation over the network. In ZeroCash, you can only prove that coins have been generated, not the amount that was generated, so any bugs within the system will go undetected. This would have been a huge problem for Bitcoin, as there was a well known bug involving integer overflow that allowed you to generate 2 billion coins.
Note that zero knowledge proofs are used in the ring signature method by ByteCoin/BitMonero, too (see section 4.4 of the whitepaper). Obfuscation of signature linkability is much more advanced than that used in DarkCoin, and you need to read the whitepaper to truly appreciate it.
CryptoNote also has support for multisig built in, despite the much more limited scripting language as compared to Bitcoin (see Section 6.3 of the CryptoNote 2.0 whitepaper). This is important for the implementation of decentralized marketplaces like DarkMarket that use multisig to enable the blockchain to be an escrow.”
(https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=563821.msg6356308#msg6356308) [tacotime justifies the CryptoNote improvements to DarkCoin and ZeroCash]
-357: “I can't help with anything else but I can donate 2000 BMR towards various projects relating to the coin. I hope it helps.”
(https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=563821.msg6359986#msg6359986) [NoodleDoodle shows up for first time in the BMR topic]
-363: “Discussion of chain future going on presently in IRC”
(https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=563821.msg6362144#msg6362144) [tacotime posts probably the most important message in the whole thread: the community is taking decisions on BMR future w/o TFT]
-365: “So far:
New OP: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=582080.0”
(https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=563821.msg6362485#msg6362485) [David Latapie summarizes the rebels have agreed on]
MRO thread is live and emission curve issue (inflation is 2 times higher than it should be) is made public
-374: “Voting about emission curve change added: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=585480”
(https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=563821.msg6406102#msg6406102) [TFT tries to satisfy a community that is letting him alone]
-380: “Same fork, same dev as the original author. The community changed the name, but the original author didn't close the thread.”
(https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=563821.msg6414656#msg6414656) [tacotime makes clear that, so far (27th, April 2014), BMR and MRO are the same coin with the same dev team]
-401: ”Transaction extra parse issue
Fixing as we speak
Please use main thread https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=583449.0”
(https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=563821.msg6475592#msg6475592) [tacotime announces a bug and that its fix is in progress. Besides he asks to use the “main” thread]
-402: “Takotime, there are two issues:
  1. Main thread is here.
  2. Bug is fixed.”
(https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=563821.msg6476068#msg6476068) [TFT breaks out (30th, Apr 2014): he does not recognize community changes]
-403: “You did not really fix it. You just ignore every error in the code with your 'update' We should wait for tacotime to confirm that the issue is fixed. PS: We should all use the main thread: Please use main thread: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=583449.0”
(https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=563821.msg6476331#msg6476331) [It is not a secret anymore: TFT and the “rebel” community do not have a good relationship]
-480: (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=563821.msg7384159#msg7384159) [Months back (June 2014) and after a few months of inactivity, TFT comes back and makes public that he will keep working in BitMonero]
-487: “Actually, several attempts were made behind the scenes and TFT's continued demand was full admin rights over the Monero repo. Now, what could that be useful for when tacotime already offered push/pull rights? It's certainly not about contributing code - push/pull offers the right to do that without interference or permission. This is basically a repeating pattern of shutting out everyone else, which is ironically what caused him to lose the project in the first place. The tone of that post makes his level of maturity obvious for everyone to see.
I might also point out that his contribution to date consists of 10 or so lines of code changed in a header file (to clone BCN). Then a bug 'fix' that actually allowed the chain to be attacked later (now fixed). This was followed by his disappearance. Disproportionate visibility indeed.”
(https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=563821.msg7387658#msg7387658) [eizh makes clear they tried to make a deal with TFT]
This is basically everything worth reading in this thread. I’ve extracted the most important posts in the whole thread, from first to last page. TFT, Bitmonero and its community are key in the birth of Monero.
These are the main conclussions:
  • BitMonero has a reason to exist. But to justify its existence it doesn’t need just reasons, but also a dedicated team and a participative community.
  • Thankful_for_today definitely it is not a sociable leader. His posts are scarce, every few days, and he can’t keep up to date with a nascent community really dedicated
  • TFT is desperate to launch BitMonero, probably to be the first Bytecoin fork and have the “first mover” advantage. He is even about to launch without Windows client.
  • Due to the rush, TFT has induced a few bugs. The most important one the emission curve.
  • Bytecoin starts to have some traction, and TFT keeps ignoring community suggestions, so the community has now doubts of BMR future. NoodleDoodle, eizh, David Latapie, Tacotime and smooth among others lead a split, firstly just to change the name and re-publishing the announcement thread, but they will eventually hard-split.
I have already ready a summary of the MRO topic that has a short life of not even 2 days but still has A LOT of interesting info about how the team is being built and what are their opinions on several topics. May i remember you that by then Monero had 1 minute blocks and an emission curve that would have created 86% of the tokens in 2 years. In the next post (will only make it public if i see there's any interest) we will see how and when the team adressed the problems with the emission curve, and when was the miner optimized to take away the probably voluntary obfuscations the code had.
submitted by el_hispano to Monero [link] [comments]

Markets and Price-Setting: Thoughts on information, created goods and services, fixed-supply commodities, financial instruments, and other market values behave

I've been reflecting on Paul Mason's Postcapitalism, particularly as concerns what he identifies as a hum-dinger of information goods: Information goods destroy the price formation mechanism based on scarcity.
That's one of a few cases in which markets as price-setting mechanisms fail, or are subject to very high degrees of ambiguity.
Four particular instances come to mind:
Each poses specific failures to usefully set a market price that corresponds to the true costs of production.
What I'm posing here is more an exploration of aspects I've found, and still find, contradictory. I'm not claiming to have final answers, though I'm starting to land a few good leads.

On "natural prices"

While much lay discussion of economics holds that the market price is the fair price for a good or service, the question of what a "natural" or "fair" price has occupied a great deal of economic thought and discussion since the time of the Greeks. Adam Smith in Wealth of Nations proposed a definition which remains close to what's commonly accepted today -- a total cost of inputs, plus normal profits:
When the price of any commodity is neither more nor less than what is sufficient to pay the rent of the land, the wages of the labour, and the profits of the stock employed in raising, preparing, and bringing it to market, according to their natural rates, the commodity is then sold for what may be called its natural price.
The cases I'm considering here all violate this in one way or another. This is troubling as they're increasingly key to economic activity.

Information Goods

Information wants to be free.
-- John Perry Barlow
In an efficient market, quality information is consistently undervalued.
In this case: fixed costs of production are high, but marginal costs of production are low. It takes a lot of time and research to create a quality book, a piece of music, software, news reporting, pharmaceutical, chemical process, etc., but once developed the costs of manufacture are far, far less, effectively zero in many cases.
That's one fundamental contradiction of the "knowledge economy".
There's the further problem of Gresham's law as applied to information: cheap, low-quality information tends to drive out high-value, but expensive-to-produce information. Ask anyone in the news, broadcast, or publishing industries.

Extant Goods

There are good cars and bad cars (which in America are known as "lemons").
-- George Akerloff, "The Market for Lemons"
This is the second-hand market -- goods which are re-sold by an initial buyer, after initial purchase. Flea markets, swaps, Craigslist, consignment stores. And antique shops and auctions.
The fundamental characteristic of each of these is that the good already exists. There is no production function. Price, instead, is effectively a motivator -- what does it take to convince the holder of a good to part with it?
There's a Spanish folk saying I've only recently learned, its English translation "Buy from desperate people, and sell to newlyweds." In both cases, the supply and demand curves are shifted to the advantage of the middleman buying in the first instance and selling in the second.
In some cases, there's an alternative to buying used: you can buy a new item or make one yourself. For many utilitarian goods (clothing, furniture, children's toys, used books or records), the second-hand market offers considerable savings over new or self-made.
Keepsakes and mementos have highly asymmetric valuations: the holder usually ascribes a high sentimental value, while others may view the item as little more than clutter or "old junk". In this case it's typically unlikely for the piece to be sold -- the holder's valuation is higher than any potential buyer's, unless the former is desperate.
Antiquities or fine arts, as opposed to personal mementos and keepsakes with high sentimental value pose a different situation: if it is the specific item in question and not a functionally equivalent replacement that is sought, then there is no ascribable production cost. You cannot make a "new" original Rembrandt, or Picasso, or Ming Dynasty vase, or piece of ancient Egyptian art. Price of such goods is entirely dependent on the demand for such products. It calls into question the entire concept of what a "natural price" of such a good is.
This case is actually the genesis for this essay -- the example I had in mind was of a Stradivarius violin -- there are about 650 left in the world, largely manufactured between 1680 and 1700, and present market values range from hundreds of thousands to millions of dollars.
This despite notable failures for blind listening tests to distinguish or prefer Strads over other instruments. While modern mass-produced violins can be had for as little as £80 new, more expensive hand-crafted instruments comparable in tonal quality to a Strad fetch about £15,000. That's still a considerable discount on the Strad -- by a factor of 200.
The embodied labor?
It takes around 120 hours to make a violin, 150 hours for a viola and 300 hours for a cello.
That's an all-in £125/hr cost of labor, assuming labor is the principle input.
Similarly, nearly indistinguishable art forgeries are fairly common, there's the case of "Jefferson's Bottles", literally an instance of new wine in old bottles. Or forgeries of antiques, antiquities, and the like.
In all cases, the immediate quality of the forgeries is quite difficult to tell, though dating of materials by radioisotopic means usually manages to distinguish them. What's changed is the perception. What marketers call "selling the story".
Or, quite bluntly: changing the demand curve for a product.
Extant products fall into two general categories:
And finally, extant goods have the "lemon" problem, and in fact, in the form of the used-car market, are the basis for George Akerloff's "The Market for Lemons" paper noted in the epigraph for this section.
In the case of established goods (e.g., antiquities and fine arts), the asymmetry detailed by Akerloff tends to be minimized. In the case of certain complex goods: automobiles and electronics certainly come to mind, concerns on the part of the buyer over the serviceability of the good in question tends to 1) keep prices depressed and 2) limit the number of quality items actually offered to market -- the seller knows that it will be unlikely to recapture the true value of a quality item.

Financial/Investment Assets

Because that's where the money is.
-- Willie Sutton, on why he robbed banks.
Here, you've almost the inverse situation of information goods: marginal cost of production is exceptionally high - - there's either a workfactor cost, or simply a finite supply (for numerous reasons, to be explored more). Will Rogers on land: they're not making it anymore. The asset value of precious metals is that their supply is (theoretically) constrained by the high costs of mining. Bitcoin is similar.
But the intrinsic utility of the good is close to nil. A dollar bill has little intrinsic value, or, if you prefer, a $100 dollar bill. It's a piece of paper, ink, and anti-copyright features. The production cost is a factor of regulatory limits on production. Gold and silver have some utility, but this is generally less than is reflected in its exchange value. Diamonds are a case of induced scarcity, though with a few other twists which tends to inflate the retail value while affording virtually no resale value.
The added value by virtue of being money is referred to as seigniorage:
the difference between the value of money and the cost to produce and